Welcome back again to another podcast of Struggling Well. We're glad you've joined us again this week and Couple weeks ago, Suzi and I kind of introduced the subject of what it meant to struggle well as parents to talk about parenting. Not to tell you how to parent, but to just explore the subject some and maybe stir some thoughts and some things in your own mind. And so, we're back to that now. and we are going to look a little bit more at what it looks like as a parent to struggle well because parenting is not for the faint of heart. It's not an easy thing to do. and I think part of the process, Suzi, for me, is looking at how God sees us. and why we don't necessarily go there often enough to understand it. It's in the 139th Psalm. familiar words to many, but it he says you knew me. I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works. My soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was being made in secret. Intricately woven in the depths of the earth. And it's that sense of God being created creator designer of our lives and therefore has a say so in how we live our lives.
Right. And speaking of fearfully and wonderfully created, we decided last night that we would bring on a special guest. And we're doing this because we wanted you to hear from someone who has been parented and is also now a parent as well. And our special guest is our middle daughter or like we like to refer to her as our centerpiece. And Jackie, you grew up in our home. You grew up in a pastor's home. let's talk about that for a minute. What was that like for you?
well, thanks mom and dad for having me on today. Thanks for giving me no notice of being on here. growing up in pastor, I don't know how to answer that since that's all I know. and I don't know life apart from that. I can say it was a wonderful home to grow up in. in it also came with different challenges being well dad cuz you were at the church for so many years that we were known us girls were known and there were different pressures I think that people either placed on us or we placed on ourselves of having to live to a certain standard that probably added to our childhood.
Yeah. You said I remember you telling me once that somebody in the church came to you and said was correcting you over something and said wanted to remind you that you were the pastor's daughter and you said no I'm not I'm Jim and Suzi Kallam's daughter
yes well every so often we did good
you know there definitely are pressures in ministry but as we've been talking prior to this recording there are pressures on kids today that I think in every generation there's a different kind of pressure Jackie You grew up in a in an era when there weren't cell phones and there wasn't the internet and all, but what were the pressures for you? What did it feel like for you growing up? What did you feel like you needed to do more of or less than?
Less of I think probably a lot of these pressures I put on myself, as I'm sure most kids do internalize some stuff. I know I had a deep desire to have friends. I had a deep desire to be liked by people I wanted people to want to be with me. there's I think a academics is still part of that especially when you get into high school which kids face today also. I think one thing that I really struggled with not all kids do but I did I struggled with my self-worth and confidence and who God created me to be. you guys did a really good job and still do a really good job. of pointing us back to the scriptures and back to what God says about us. I think in my young mind that was still hard for me to grasp.
where did you hear that from? Like what kind of voices were you hearing that told you that you're less than?
I think it happens when you try to when you compare yourself to others and it's your perception of what somebody else's life is like that might not be reality, but how you perceive it. and you take that perception and you weigh it against your own life. And so then you I think what I did is I created lies about myself that I then began to believe. And you know, the gift of growing up in a Christian household I think overall helped keep me grounded through those childhood years for sure.
Mhm.
And you know, it wasn't I couldn't rely on what I believed because it's what you and dad believed or it was dad's job or whatever. Like it had to become real for me. I think my struggle was still
fully believing to the core of who I was, what God said about me.
Yeah. And I you used a word, Jackie, that I want to pick up on for a second because it is one of the things I think as parents we need to understand. It is a hard damaging thing and that's the idea of comparison. If I take what scripture says that we're fearfully and wonderfully made, that there's a uniqueness about how God designed each of us, then comparison doesn't do me any good. And I think many times it can foster those lies that leave me feeling less than or not as good as or whatever it may be. And as parents, I just can't stress enough not to compare to others. And that also includes within your own household. You have two sisters. We love all three of you. You're all three very different, yet you grew up in the same household.
Yeah.
Which made it very interesting and trying to discipline them because our eldest super social if you sent her to a room and the youngest too, they were both dying
cuz it was FOMO,
a fear of missing out. But with Jackie, Jackie, what was it like for you to be sent to your room?
I mean, I loved it. I am not afraid of some alone time.
So, the way we dealt with Jackie was a little bit different. she used to have this propensity of when she was angry, she would stomp up the stairs. I mean, rattling the foundation, stomp up the stairs and slam her door. So, Jack, what happened there? Do you remember?
You took the door off the hinges.
You took the door off the hinges.
We gave you one last warning and I said, "If you slam that door again, it's coming off its hinges."
Yeah.
And it did.
And you followed through. Being a parent now, and one of the things that you guys did really well, and that I'm thing I do well is follow through. You do have to follow through. If you if you're going to throw it out there, follow through.
Yeah. And you told me it was a violation of your rights to take the door open. You just
We were like, "Yeah, well, forget that."
Jackie, there you went through some difficult times in your life. And some of it was in high school, some of it was afterwards. And you talked about, you know, comparing yourself, but also feeling like you were less than and didn't measure up. So, when you started and we talked about this a few minutes ago, you began to pull away from us and some of your friends, what was going on inside?
I think it goes back to not being confident in who God made me to be and feeling kind of lost like as I was going through high school, just a an average student in a really big high school trying to find my group of friends. Didn't really, you know, have an amazing group of friends I guess solid friends. never felt secure in who I was and then natural things started happening and I didn't take a normal path after high school and you know I think I viewed myself if you want to call it like a misfit. So then after high school I gravitated towards maybe what I would call other misfits and you know started to make some decisions that probably weren't great and you know led me to feeling and shame. And so I think in the foundation that you laid in our household that was a foundation on Christ and God's word. I was choosing to do things against that.
And so then that produced shame. And so I needed to I guess in my subconscious pull away from
the two of you because I knew that you I didn't want to disappoint you. Even though I knew I was disappointing you, I didn't want to disappoint you and I didn't want to I guess face maybe consequences for my choices. and so it was easier to pull away. I'll deal with having to talk it out with my parents later.
Yeah. And I think that the part that we wanted you to understand, and again, I don't know that we did it well, was that there was nothing you could do in those choices. While we would disagree maybe with the choice is there was nothing you could do that was going to ever cause us to stop loving you. And that's the part where I think sometimes as parents to get that across, but as kids to be able to hear that in such a way that you don't feel you've crossed a line you can never come back from.
We're going to talk more with Jackie. she's going to be with us again for next week. So stay tuned. There's more to hear.