Thanks for joining us again this week as we continue conversations on our podcast. struggling. Well, I'm joined again by my friend and pastor here in Charlotte, Tim Briggs. And we want to continue kind of the conversation from last week's session. and Tim, I'll start here. so you planted steadfast and then COVID hit and the world changed. what have been the unique challenges and struggles that you faced? I tell people I retired in 2019 because I had a vision that there was this pandemic coming. that was going to change everything. No, that's not really true, but that's I tell people that. but I've listened to other pastors all around the country say that the hardest years of ministry have been these last few years. So, what's it been like for you and the folks at Steadfast as you've walked through this mask, no mask, vaccinate, don't vaccinate, the racial tensions. I mean, the list goes on and on of those things.
Yeah. It's funny. I joke that my grand plan was to plant a church during a global pandemic. Now that's not exactly how we had planned it. but that's what God had for us. Interestingly enough for us co I mean so we and we really started in the heart of CO I mean we were doing some very introductory work in March April of 2020 to plant a church. And at the time we were going to start a Bible study in our home and if it grew we would plan a service. but then COVID hit and so All the plans that we had for church planting were immediately changed and thrown out and we had to come up with new ones. Co actually I think forged us together in a very unique way. because we were all going through that together while starting a church. And so I actually think more established churches had more of the COVID mask no mask tension than we probably did. Although you know there were some it's hard seeking the unity of the church when people are in all sorts of different positions.
we were able to navigate that fairly. Okay. What was the second part of that question?
Just what was it were there things that over the last couple years that maybe were unique to the struggles of this day and age versus just in general?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, of course, racial tension is I think every pastor would tell you the complaints they receive. Either you're too woke or not woke enough. And you have to, you know, be prepared of how you're going to answer those questions. these are just where people are living at. This is the level of conversation that we're at. And so, of course, we're not immune to that. people have questions about positions on certain things. I think postco there seems to be In most pastors I talk to, there seems to be people who have gone through COVID perhaps while also going through church hurt or seeing their heroes from afar in the faith fall morally and they're wrestling with do I really believe what I say I believe. Do I believe in Jesus? Do I believe in the local church in Christian community? Do I really want that? do I really need that? And there is a level of skepticism. there's a level of detachment with people and they're wrestling with those things. how much do I believe this? Is it worth, you know, giving up part of my week to join a church and be a part of a Christian community? And so I think that's one that's been one of the unique things for us which may have been different from 5 years ago is dealing with church hurt. in doubt, in skepticism and questions. But honestly, I kind of like entering in on those conversations. And I think that's partly how God has used our church.
Yeah. You know, part of the way I define in its simplest form what it means to struggle well is to the point you just had, you never turn your face away from Jesus.
And he's the hope. Not that this world I don't know that the world's going to get any better. better. In fact, I don't think it will. and we'll find something else to be divisive about. But, but if I can never turn my face away from Jesus, I really believe he's the hope of it all. that's when I learn how to struggle. Well,
we talked some last week about, keeping people informed of what you struggle with. And Paul says it again, we talked about it in 2 Corinthians. And then he follows up of saying to them, I don't want you to be uninformed about what we went through. And in his case, he said, even to the point where we despared of life. he says, "I do this so that you also may help us by prayer."
what is it that you would want not just your congregation but any congregation, so people who are listening to this who go to church and they have their own church family and their pastor, what would you want them to do to walk into your struggle to help you?
Yeah, that's a good question. I think and this will sound a little bizarre, but just to see a pastor, pastor's wife, anyone who's in ministry and leadership, just to see them as a human being,
I think we have and I have been guilty of this. When you're in a congregation and you're not in leadership, there is a tendency sometimes to see a pastor or any leader as a role but not necessarily as a human being. And so there's someone who you want something from, you need a decision for. it gets really mechanical and you know behind the power the decision making, the teaching is a human being who is a sinner just like you who may have had a rough week just like you. And so just having that in mind that They're real people who have real struggles. They're not, you know, a superhero. they go through life just like you do. And I so appreciate to you when I meet with people pastorally and I'm glad to do this. This is part of the vocation. But nine out of 10 emails, nine out of 10 meetings, nine out of 10 conversations I have are in some ways in which someone wants something from me. They may want counsel. They may want shephering. They may want a decision. That's the role. That's what you enter into as a pastor. But when people on their own valition reach out and say, "Hey, how are you doing?" That is significant. Hey, how can I pray for you?
When that is their only agenda item that strikes you and that also tells you that oh they're ah they're seeing me as a human being and I appreciate that. Yeah, it's a great point because I think sometimes we're put in this position where our folks want to believe somebody's figured this thing out. Somebody's figured out the Christian life and pastor, if you haven't figured it out, then who has? Because I need you to live in such a way that you tell me you have figured it out. but like you said, we're human beings. We struggle too. we've been a part of groups and you know, this phrase is not going to be unfamiliar to you. To be able to say to somebody, I see you and I hear you.
requires us to look at the other person without an agenda and listen to that person and what they're going through. and I've got a few more years behind me of doing this, but, I think we both would say that's a rarity.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think too particularly as a pastor. I mean it is a it's a lonely isolating profession. I mean the reality is I think work do things for Steadfast Church 40 to 60 hours a week. No one else does that,
right?
Nor should they, mind you. But when you have that much commitment to something and you look around and no one else has that same sort of commitment. It is isolating. It is a weight. And you can understand then why pastors struggle with friendship and community. And so that's been something I've had to learn these last few years, particularly being a solo pastor, is what we talked about last episode, h how to be real and have friendship and community within the congregation, but then also how much I need friends in ministry who can say, "Yep, I get that. Yep, I went through that. Yeah, that same thing happened to me two years ago." And you don't have to explain. They understand. They get it. And in fact, you've been a person for me where I could call you or say, "Hey, I'm dealing with this. Surely you dealt with this in 45 years in ministry. What did you do?" give me all the answers, Jimmy. but it is so help. ful to have someone you can talk to where you don't have to decode the vocation, right?
And you can just kind of talk shop and they understand.
I agree with you use the word loneliness and there is a certain loneliness that goes with ministry. how do you personally deal with the loneliness?
Yeah. well, you might say not well historically. I'm not sure. I think I'm getting better. I think that was Perhaps the biggest transition from being on staff at a big church and then going to starting something from scratch and being a solo pastor was that loss of kind of peer camaraderie and friendship and then like I just said of you're the only one you know who's thinking, praying, working through these things as much as you are. And so the first thing is just to acknowledge that you know of oh there's this ache in my soul and friendship is a good gift that God has given community is a good gift that God has given and I need to work really hard at developing that and maintaining those relationships but also put them in their proper places. You know I think this is a constant struggle in my life of just realizing God is near. He is with me. There's nothing that I'm going through that he's not surprised by. And his offer of rest and his offer of the easy yoke and his offer of friendship is extended to me. And so friendship's good, community is good. I need those things. I need Jesus first and foremost.
And just learning to practice his presence and know that he is intimate. He is lowly. He is with me. That's something that I continue to work on.
Yeah. And people ask me since I've retired, what do I miss about pastoring a local church? And without a doubt, there are things I miss, but at the top of that list is the community of the staff, that camaraderie that we had as a staff. they don't have that anymore
and that's a big miss. So the presence of Christ in your life what are some of your personal practices that help you bring that back into focus on those lonely days?
Yeah.
Yeah. I think I shared this with our congregation a few weeks ago, but one of the things that Jenny and I have done since the beginning of our marriage, which has been a great practice, is almost every day without fail, it could be for 10 minutes, it could be for 2 hours, but we sit down or maybe we go on a walk and we share about our day. and not just the mechanical parts of the day, but actually how our soul was during the day. And it's a sweet, sweet time.
And I look forward to it every day. And for me, it's taking that picture of what Jenny and I have and trying to relate that to God and go that's that is the offer of Christ. And so, just actually trying to picture as if he's at a at a table with me and we're having a conversation. Now, it's hard because I don't always hear something back in return like Jenny gives. but that's really helpful to think of that in that way. And the second thing I'll mention is
which will perhaps sound odd but is silence. I we live busy frenetic lives. I can fill up my schedule so quickly and I'm just learning the value of just being still and listening.
Yeah.
And we try to do that during our services knowing that people live hectic lives. And in a church service, giving them 90 seconds might be the only 90 seconds of silence they've had in their whole week. And so I'm a person who would have felt that I would have that would have felt so awkward to me five years ago. Let's just be silent for a while, but now I'm trying to embrace it as an invitation from God.
Yeah. And I think if we learn from one another, I think some of the monastic orders in the Catholic Church do a much better job of leaning into silence and solitude to hear from God. Whereas I think in the Protestant culture, we do a pretty good job with community of making make sure we get together. But if you blend those two things together, it's a necessary thing. I don't like silence, so I feel it. Even if it's just turning on some mindless radio station while I'm driving, it's I don't like silence.
Well, Tim, I thank you for sharing. And I hope that if you're out there, if you are a pastor, I hope this has been a helpful thing to you. Maybe you've been nodding your head with us. if you're member of a church congregation, maybe this will help you get greater insight into to your pastor and his life and his world to where you'll take the time to say to him, "How are you doing?" No, really, how are you doing this week? So, thanks so much for joining us, Tim.
Thanks for having me.