Well, another conversation between the two of us.
Time to celebrate. This is our second podcast ever in the whole world.
In the whole world. We're going to invite people in on this conversation again that you and I are going to have. Okay.
familiar verse in scripture that I think sums up a struggle that is common to all of us.
Proverbs 3:5 says this, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." And that really to me is the basis of it. Will I trust him or will I lean to my own understanding of life? Man, you just jumped right in there. What are you thinking? Where did it come from?
Well, it just came from the fact of what we've observed recently in our lives that people have an intense desire to be in control of life. And
you're not talking about like your personal life with your wife, are you?
No, I'm not.
No. Never.
No.
No. I just think that there is this huge desire to control.
Yeah.
And to understand. And that verse to me is always, it's a familiar verse, but it really does. Will I trust him or am I going to lean to my own abilities to understand? We have a great desire to be able to control life. I think on all levels from parents to friendships to job, I mean, you name it. And I think the question that I have is why is it so difficult to trust him?
Oh, that's a million-dollar question. And I think about the times in my life where as long as I felt like I was in control, that I could call the shots and I could figure out what the next steps were, and I think we talked last podcast about strategizing about how things are going to go. when I do that, then I feel like I'm really in control. and the Lord really put that to the test for me because about maybe seven, eight years ago, we were out in California and we had gone to the what's it called? The La Hoya jumping off the cliff center. You jump off a cliff, hang gliding. There you go. With tandem with somebody and I always thought that was the coolest thing and it looked beautiful. But what kept rolling around inside of me is I would never do that because first of all, I would not know who the person was. Second of all, why would any sane person jump off a cliff? So, we went back the second year. Do you remember this? I was terrified. But we had put aside some money so that I could do it. And we got there and they immediately sent me over to this man named Steve. I remember it. And he hooked me up and I'm trying to babble on about how this is important for me. So I feel like God's teaching me that I can't be in control and I need to jump and trust and all that. And I remember he was not paying attention. And he just strapped me in really quickly and then said, "We're going to take five steps and just keep going forward." And oh, it was the most unnerving situation because I had absolutely no control. So as we stepped those few steps, it was only three and then we were out over the cliff. The Pacific was down below us. People look like ants below us. We I stepped off that cliff and I thought, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I don't know this guy. I don't know if he's had a fight with his spouse. I don't know if he's suicidal. I don't know anything about him. But I just strapped myself to this guy. I'm going to step off. But while I was up there and flying around with this guy, Okay. he gave me a 45minute fly, whatever that means. And I just I can remember thinking, "Oh, is this what it means to trust even when you are totally out of control?" And I will never forget that.
Yeah. And that's a great illustration of trusting somebody else. And we're talking about that to the nth degree when we're talking about trusting the sovereign God of the universe.
And yet, I think For a lot of us, it is a difficult thing to do. We'd rather live with the illusion that we can control life and that we can control things. And I think that may maybe part of the reason why it's so hard to trust is we don't know him well enough.
Yeah.
To trust him with our lives. And yet that's exactly what he asks us to do. you know, elsewhere in the Old Testament in Isaiah, God says this for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. He operates at a level beyond my understanding and beyond your understanding. And it really does come back to the willingness to put aside my thought that I have a better understanding of how life should go than he does.
Me babe, I think we have an example of that when you and I take a road trip. You're driving. And what do you call me?
My little helper.
Because while I know he can drive, I know that you can drive. And I know that God is in control kind of, you know.
No, he is.
He is. Well, I mean, in my mind, I'm going kind of. And then so there we are driving down the highway and it just happened this weekend. And I feel like I need to tell you what to do to slow down or to go to the other lane or other stuff like that. And that's part of the issue with God. is with trusting him. It's saying, "I'm going to know who you are, and I'm going to trust in your steadfast love." As opposed to me saying, because I think in Christianity, we do this. Yeah, I trust the Lord, but by the way, Lord, let me give you some pointers. Can if you can get off to the left a little bit, slow down a little bit. And in the Psalms, he talks about the psalmist says that we need to trust in God's steadfastness. And so, that means that my trust is that he's got it. And like when I'm in the car with you, I've got to trust that you have it. And if something happens that well, that's the next step that we'll have to walk through. But at the moment, trust is like a second by second thing of saying right now, I'm going to trust you, God, and believe that you've got this, you've got me, you're the same, and that's not going to change.
And that's a whole lot easier to do when I like the path that he has me walking down.
Yes.
When he takes me down a path or he allows a path to come into my life that is not to my liking, can I still trust him? That really becomes to me the question of having to work through that in the midst of unpleasant things the way I would see them
and believe that all of it he's working together to strengthen my walk with him, to refine me, to strip away the things that aren't good in my life.
I think it goes back to what you were saying about we don't know him well enough.
Yeah.
And again, I'm in the Psalms and I'm in Psalm 119, which is an incredible Psalm and the Psalmist says how can a young man keep his way pure? And that's a whole another topic, but by guarding it according to your word. With my whole heart I seek you, let me not wander from your commandments. I have stored up your word in my heart. And that's part of the issue is that we don't know God well enough. We don't have his word. The word that describes who he is, we don't have enough of that in our hearts. So that when we're in a tough place or even in a good place, if we're in a good place, we like to go think we got there. We don't ever think that God got us there. But when we're in a tough place and we're frantically trying to, you know, I think of somebody trying kind of frantically keep from drowning and they end up drowning because they don't have any reserve any life thing around them. Life raft life thing.
Yeah. Preserver.
Oh, preserver. There you go. You can tell I swim a lot.
Yeah. No, it I think it is I think it is a daily challenge. And that's the other thing about this. I could today in the midst of whatever life brings my way trust him. When I wake up tomorrow, it's going to be a choice again whether I'm going to trust him or whe whether I'm going to try to take control. So it's not a one-time thing.
No,
it's an ongoing battle that I have to be willing to put my trust in the in this God who loves me and like you said with his steadfastness is always going to be there even when I walk down a path that isn't my favorite path to walk down. So I hope for us and I hope for those who listen in that there'll be the acknowledgement of this need to every day commit to trusting him even when it feels like my life is out of my control.
Who do you see in scripture that best represents trust?
Well, I you know what comes I don't know if this is the best, but what comes to my mind is Shadrach, Meshach, and Abedneo when they are facing the fiery furnace and they tell Nebuchadnezzar that God is going to be with them and he'll pro protect them and deliver them and then they say and even if he doesn't
Yeah,
that to me is one of those pictures of complete trust. They're not they're they believe that God will take care of them and we know the story that he does rescue them from that but the it's that line and even if he doesn't we're not going to bow down to you Nebuchadnezzar
because he God is more satisfying than even rescue.
Yeah. And he's more trust worthy than what they could see happening. So, I mean, that's just one illustration to me that I want to be able to say in my life and even if he doesn't, whatever the situation is, I will not stop trusting him.
Yeah,
I agree.
Good conversation.
Well, thanks. Let's do this again.
We will. Thank you.